[laughter] >> host: how do you feel about government secrets and what edward snowden has done? >> guest: um, i believe in whistleblowers. i mean, i do think that whistleblowers perform a public service, especially when there's corruption in government or pharmaceuticals or harming people and they step forward. i'm mixed on snowden. i am mixed. i do believe that there's certain secrets that you have to keep for the security of our country, and perhaps i've changed a little bit on that since 9/11. but i don't know quite what to make on the snowden thing. parts of it, parts of his disclosures i think have gotten us into a national debate and conversation that's constructive and good. and i don't know about the rest. i'm sorry to -- i'm not copping out, i just simply haven't come down hard on one side or the other. >> host: about 30 minutes left in our interview with kitty kelley, this month's "in depth" guest on booktv. phil in north hollywood, california, good afternoon. >> caller: hi there, peter. really love your show. i always get some new insight from writers that i've known